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+--- Thread: An Observation (/showthread.php?tid=5163)
An Observation - WilliamAbuJannah - 03-09-2005
I was thinking today on something, 3 somethings actually. Razorgloves, hockey masks, and Myers masks. And colors. I don\'t know how to sum up my thoughts in a post, but I\'ll give it a shot.
There seem to be 2 schools of thought when it comes to replica building, and the trick really seems to be combining what people \'think\' they see, with what\'s actually there. Take hockey masks for instance. Now the screen used hockey masks were high impact .060 abs plastic. Extremely thin, light, and flexable. But becuse of the way it looks on screen, the way the holes sink in a little bit, it gives the illusion of being a thick piece of heavy plastic, and yet it isn\'t. The rivets also. From what I\'ve heard from quite a few people who\'s opinions I trust, alot of the cheek rivets were glued on, and sometimes paper fasteners were used to hold the straps on. Because after all, this is just a quickly made film prop, usually on a tight budget. Now when we look at the Hockey Mask, we see what we think is a heavy duty thick plastic Hockey Mask with hardcore rivets and straps. So when we get a replica Hockey Mask, do we expect what we \'think\' we see? Or do we want something as close to the film prop as possible. Because of this someone may get a thin flexible Hockey Mask that\'s accurate and think, "WTF?" because we were expecting something more like a \'real\' Hockey Mask.
Same with Myers masks, what we think we see isn\'t always whats really there. Just look at how many arguments people get into over Myers masks and I\'ll bet you see my point. And the color of the coveralls? Goodness that alone starts tons of fights.
Razorgloves are the same thing. The screen prop was actually a very small armature on a medium sized leather glove. And according to my measurements with screencaps and a medium sized glove, (I\'m thinking of the part one glove) that was a really small razorglove. Add the slight flexability I see in the glove and you realize it\'s really not all that strong at all, not to mention the index finger blade broke off and had to be rejoined, hence the trademark \'bend\' in the index blade. But when people want a razorglove, they\'re expecting a hardcore heavy duty thick copper razorglove that could punch through someones head. When in reality, a solder joint no matter how well done, is only so strong. So when people get a razorglove do they really want what they see on screen? No, cuz then it would be a small glove that probably wouldn\'t fit most people and wouldn\'t be very strong, it\'d be like a prop and actually be for display. So replica makers almost have to try and guess somewhere in between the reality of the prop, and what people actually want. Which is usually the \'real\' thing, even though the \'real\' thing is usually kind of junky since it\'s just a fast cheaply made prop.
And colors? I\'m amazed by how everyone see\'s colors differently. Most people look at Jasons head in part 8 and say it looks grey. But 2 artists that I\'ve spoken with, (accomplished artists who both have unbelievable eyes when it comes to color, to the point they can look at any color, tell you what colors are mixing to make that color, and then actually mix the paint in front of you and match it) but both artists looked at Jason pt 8 and both said that his head actually has more of a green tint to it, and that the film and the camera are making it look grey. Again, the confliction between what\'s really there and what we think we see.
I know I always thought that Jason clothes in JGTH were blue, but after talking with Kane and holding a piece of the costume in my hand, I can honestly say it was a dark green. Same as the part 8 and part 7 costumes. This amazes me because my eyes see blue and black. Pinheads costume too. I always thought it was black, but it\'s actually more brown. Black clothes on camera would actually be too dark and you wouldn\'t see the details of the costume.
Anyway, don\'t know where I\'m going with all this, but it\'s something I\'ve been thinking about today. The reality VS what we think we see.
It\'s enough to almost make you just wanna stop making replicas cuz you realize that no matter what you do, ..there\'s always gonna be someone who\'s disappointed with your work because it isn\'t what they \'expected.\'
_________
wow, that got longer then I thought it would, lol.
An Observation - gmyers - 03-09-2005
Very good points bill! I never knew the color of Jason\'s clothes in jgth, i always thought they were blue. But let me ask you this, would you want a more film accurate and flimsy Hockey Mask, or a sterdy Hockey Mask? Personally, I would take a stery one, it may not be the same strength or exact look, but at least it may hold up longer. Nice points though man!
An Observation - The13thDreamShape - 03-10-2005
Jesus Bill,
Your that bored? lol
You honestly are speaking the truth, im with ya 100% on that. i remember u telling me how tiny the part 1 razor glove armature would be. Honestly, well put man.
An Observation - adam - 03-10-2005
bill has a smarter head on his shoulders than he would have you think. he has said what has needed to be addressed for quite some time.... thanks man.
An Observation - WilliamAbuJannah - 03-10-2005
*homer voice*
Me smart? no, me lose brain
*/homer voice*
An Observation - WilliamAbuJannah - 03-10-2005
oh yeah, I\'d rather have a film accurate Hockey Mask. Trav has made me see the light, lol.
I still prefer gloves that can do some damage though, *wink*
An Observation - fright-rags - 03-10-2005
Nice post, Bill. Like you said, it all comes down to illusion vs. reality. Everyone has their own preferences, and sometimes it\'s hard to play nice on these forums because of just that...we all have different ways of seeing things, and different expectations. What we see Freddy wearing and what he is wearing are two completely different things...but most people cannot separate that out and if they really have no knowledge of filmmaking, then they are totally confused.
Does anyone remember that one pic of the guy (director? fx guy?) crouching down over, like, 15 part 6 hockey masks? It was a behind the scenes pic I\'m sure most of you are familiar with. Do you really think each and every one of those were painted with Cropsy-like precision? Hell no. They were painted to look alike, but I guarantee you they were done just good enough to be usuable on camera...and here we are, paying out great sums of money for artists to replicate what probably took a few minutesto do the actual mask used. For what? The illusion.
That said, I\'d almost rather have a replica than the real thing. Take Myers masks, for example. Sure, I\'d freak if I had the actual hero mask from that film. But, take that out of the equation and you\'re left with a crappy old mask that\'s showing it\'s age. Sure, it was once used in my favorite movie, and though that value is real, it\'s still not offering me the illusion I want. So, even if I did have that mask, you bet your ass I\'d still want a Psycho. Because that is giving me what I perceive the mask to be.
Again, we all have our opinions. And Bill, I really didn\'t mean to hijack your thread with this rant...if youy want me to delete or edit it, please let me know. I\'m only venting here as well because over the past few days I\'ve read argument after arguement on various boards over the (IMO) stupidest crap...the color of the scalpel used in H2? Jeeesus....
I\'m not aiming this at anyone at all, trust me. It\'s just that lately people seem to be picking out the weirdest stuff...these are movies that we all enjoy. And when it comes down to it, we enjoy them all in our very own special way. And we\'re here (and other places) because we enjoy the artistry involved in recreating that which we enjoy. But at the end of the day, it\'s just movie-making...that\'s it.
An Observation - travsall - 03-10-2005
Fantastic thread Bill, harkens back to the good old days where we had real conversation. It is funny isn\'t it? 2 people can look at a movie screen and see 2 completely different things, but that\'s part of the magic, you get enough of an image to wrap your mind around it, then your creative side takes over. Little example, not overly pertaining to this discussion, but interesting none the less. Gunnar Hansen STILL has people coming up to him saying how cool Franklin\'s death scene was, and how incredably gory it was. If you remember, all you saw was Gunnar\'s face, the saw, and a little blood splatter, but people see the rest clear as day, part of the magic of movies.
As for prop replicas, we really are trying to recreate an illusion, a uber fans vision of his favorite character in 3D, that he can hold and wear. No one want\'s the glued on rivets, or reality of what those things were, we want the mask we see trudging through the forest, ripping through a bevy of teens! We want the white faced monster, just as creepy and evil looking as we see, not the crumpled up, thinly cast, spraypainted reality. Movie props are an amazing thing to have and own, but a lot of the time, you would be pretty surprised, and in some cases disapointed with what you get.
We have really been spoiled with guys like Justin and Cropsy. Recreating these incredable pieces that we as fans, and collectors can bring out of the film, and put on our shelves, or dress up with and take pictures. Grasping that old feeling again, and for a fleeting moment become what we admire, or what scared us! That is a pretty powerful thing, and in that we of course will search out the absolute best reproduction, bringing us that much closer to that character, and that feeling they first gave us all.
An Observation - WilliamAbuJannah - 03-10-2005
np Fright-Rags, these are the kinds of answers/discussions I was hoping this thread might generate. Same with you Trav.
I love the message board, but sometimes we need a little more to wrap our brains around then, "look at this Hockey Mask" or "where can I get straps"
lol
Keep em coming guys.
An Observation - mike - 03-10-2005
finally a good topic to talk about, its tricky about hockey masks do u use thin palstic which can break but yet be more accurate to film or thicker for durability reasons..u want flemsy straps or quality film accuracy is differnt for everyone..some want everythign accurate some jsut the look..But lighting plays a major role in what peopel think it should be..take hockey masks and myers on screen u see one thing but get behind the scenes shots or pics of the actual piece and your liek wtf is this..
A funny thing is that jsutins f7 suit pieces are probably made and painted better than the fx artist did most the suits were cheap except for the hero..I think jsutin and others have brought items right off the screen into our homes and without them where would we be??
Stuck with rubies masks thast where