Are We In A Recession?

[🪦 adee ●]

<!--quoteo(post=341713:date=Dec 9 2009, 02:26 AM:name=PREMATURE INKER)<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE (PREMATURE INKER @ Dec 9 2009, 02:26 AM) <a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=341713\"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class=\'quotemain\'><!--quotecWell regardless if the topic is irrelevent or not I think its been worth discussing.<!--QuoteEnd</div><!--QuoteEEndI meant the mask price guide is irrelevant, and tbh, an artist is entitled to charge what they like for their work. It's not for you or I to judge what someone thinks their time and skills are worth. It's between artist and buyerOk, a re-sell guide might be appropriate, but again, it depends on the circumstances. A Kruegear glove isn't worth what people pay so a good guide price wouild be less than half, but that won't stop them selling for what they do...

[🪦 Dr Channard ●]

if you can afford it buy it, if not then keep your money if the recession affected you. sellers will charge whatever the market will bear. If their price is too high and no one is buying then they'll be forced to lower their prices.

[Nightmaresetc]

<!--quoteo(post=341816:date=Dec 9 2009, 05:19 PM:name=Dr Channard)<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE (Dr Channard @ Dec 9 2009, 05:19 PM) <a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=341816\"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class=\'quotemain\'><!--quotecif you can afford it buy it, if not then keep your money if the recession affected you. sellers will charge whatever the market will bear. If their price is too high and no one is buying then they'll be forced to lower their prices.<!--QuoteEnd</div><!--QuoteEEnd You hit the nail on the head Dr. Channard.

[🪦 scabboy ●]

I price guide would be completely irrelevant- I agree. I mean you can have a recasted Hockey Mask blank with an amazing paint job and a FS (wooooo) blank with a mediocre paint job and some people would choose the FS one, and probably pay more! I've seen people buy a 19.99 FS blank and throw on a 2 hour paint job and sell for $150 and that's robbery! I'd rather have a nice non FS blank with a meticulous (Crashesque) paint job for $175... a Hockey Mask is only worth it's paint job as far as I am concerned.Blank undermasks are the same- I've seen some Bohr originals sell for $450, yet you can get second generations online (not painted by Bohr) for much cheaper.... but again, it's about the art work and artist.When it comes to a guide, how much would an ITZ-U be worth? Well it could be worth a grand, but I doubt one would actually sell for $650+. Look at the busts MMFX sells- $600 for one- I doubt if you bought it you could resell it for $300. I have a Part 3 bust and it's a great sculpt, but the paint job is mediocre at best and definitely not worth it.

[🪦 adee ●]

Another example of tyhe above - I tried on Suckfaces Vs glove by Anders the other week and it felt awful - the movement wasn't fluid and it didn't feel that well constructed. Now normall you'd say anders gloves - worth lots, but if the artist has a bad day....?

[🪦 ThePhantomKiller ●]

<!--quoteo(post=341825:date=Dec 9 2009, 04:55 PM:name=Nightmaresetc)<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE (Nightmaresetc @ Dec 9 2009, 04:55 PM) <a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=341825\"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class=\'quotemain\'><!--quotecYou hit the nail on the head Dr. Channard.<!--QuoteEnd</div><!--QuoteEEndThink about that statement, though, it's a generalization... If a mask maker/artist lowers their prices just to keep themselves in the game, taking this loss, for however long they might have to, how many great new masks that the artist thinks might be "worth" his while to make in the future are you going to see? Next to none probably. You know the threads you see in here from time to time that ask for a specific number of guys willing to pay X amount of $ for a commission of sorts, just to make a certain character? They do this because of no inherent or guaranteed sale outside of making such a project worth their while. If they sell any kind of product <i>actually worth</i> the price they're asking for it, why would they feel forced to take such a hit and be the mask maker who starts to lower their prices just to accommodate the collector market? And I'm not talking about crap masks that sell for less than $100 on eBay. I don't think it's ever gonna come to this projection of getting a lot more for a helluva lot less. For example, I'd like to see any one of you email Justin Mabry right now and ask him to lower his mask prices, or threaten to stop buying his stuff and wait until he does. Can almost hear the laughter. Some of his prices are high, some of them very reasonable but you likely wouldn't see a price drop because Johnny Maskcollector just can't afford a $250 mask right now. And a mask price guide? You'd need some real help with that one from a variety of sources to have anything remotely authoritative. Didn't David Lady have something akin to this awhile back? You're talking a fairly good amount of work and research there, so good luck with that. Just hope that it won't be written by some uninformed person who wants to sell their mask price guide for $20 each.

[🪦 Deadguy71 ●]

THe model still holds true. If you don't pay big money for masks, prices will come down.It's an average, not an individual. Some folks create them as a hobby, other's already have the masks, or buy blanks at "wholesale" and than mark it up when they do the paintjob. Others do it as a business, or sell to offload, or update the masks in their collections. Each of those represent the market.If everyone quit paying high end prices, it's true, that as you say, the masks may not come out from some of the folks, but across the board, you'd see a price drop because sellers who have already made an investment, still want to sell.Eventually, you'd see that some of the mask makers would try and get more buyers at a lower price. This works out well in terms of buying larger quantities and deeper discounts possible, per buyer as a result. You also see profit margins decreasing, and/or budgeted hourly wages being reduced, in an attempt to be the "affordable, but great" seller.It's market adaptation. If you don't adapt, you don't survive. Those that refuse to sell at the lower price are no longer part of the market because they aren't able to sell, thereby lowering the average mask cost (because the lower cost ones are still being bought/sold).Things aren't THAT bad in this market though.. many of the collectors are fairly wealthy.. so sales continue, regardless of the economy dive. However, it's hard to sell a $350 mask when it's used twin is on Ebay for $150 being sold by a guy who just needs to pay rent this week.

[🪦 scabboy ●]

Well, I personally think if people refuse to pay high prices for masks the prices will indeed come down, but then so will the art work on them. Really, you think someone will take the time to sculpt a full-size bust, mold it, pour it, and paint it without cutting corners and slapping on a marginal paint job? When you see those huge remake Jason busts going for $400 I think that's a very fair price. Some of those things are huge with poked hair, glass eyes and acrylic teeth. I can guarantee you when the day comes that a collector won't pay what they are worth then you can get that bust for $250, but the pain will look like arse, the eyes will be painted on, the hair will be glued and the teeth will be latex.I still say that when it comes to a technical-based hobby, or any technical work, the recession won't effect them as much as say a retail outlet. For crissakes, these are fans making short runs of masks for people who want them- if you can't pay for them then don't buy one. I can bet 95% of the buyers are hardcore collectors to begin with, and they are the ones who want to dish the dough.

[🪦 ThePhantomKiller ●]

<!--quoteo(post=341994:date=Dec 11 2009, 01:00 PM:name=Deadguy71)<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE (Deadguy71 @ Dec 11 2009, 01:00 PM) <a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=341994\"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class=\'quotemain\'><!--quotecTHe model still holds true. If you don't pay big money for masks, prices will come down.<!--QuoteEnd</div><!--QuoteEEndIt takes a whole lot more than wishful thinking to make this statement true, though, that's what I'm getting at. Is there really a median, magic number to define, to set in stone, any given category of masks actual value? What "big" money is to some collectors, is not necessarily very "big" money compared to others. IMO I think it's all relative to the quality of the mask makers product, and the collector's willingness to shell out for it.